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	<title>Comments on: A Qualitative Analysis of NEF Compression</title>
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	<link>http://regex.info/blog</link>
	<description>Not a photo blog. A personal blog with photos.</description>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-36600</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 01:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-36600</guid>
		<description>Jeffrey:  thanks for the useful analysis and clearly written explanation.   I also think the comment from emil  dated April 24th is especially relevant.   Peter, Kingston, Canada</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey:  thanks for the useful analysis and clearly written explanation.   I also think the comment from emil  dated April 24th is especially relevant.   Peter, Kingston, Canada</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Peterson</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-36208</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-36208</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeffrey -

First of all, thanks for a very informative post, and thanks for your diligence and objectivity in gathering and interpreting your data.  You answer a lot of questions.

However, there&#039;s one circumstance that your tests don&#039;t really cover, and in my own tests (much less meticulously done than yours, I&#039;ll happily admit) I have found that NEF compression does create visible artifacts (though still not very offensive ones).

Specifically, using a D200 set to ISO 800, I took photos of a sunny Arizona scene (my back yard) with lots of blue sky included (we have no shortage of that here).  I then visually compared, at 100 % magnification, the photos made with NEF compression turned on and off, after converting them to tiffs via ACR using identical settings (note that I used different shots for this, but they were made within a minute or two of each other, so I don&#039;t expect that to be a factor).  

What I found is that in the blue sky areas, the noise was pretty clearly more evident in the compressed NEFs than in the uncompressed ones.  The individual noise &quot;grains&quot; (viewed at 100%) were a bit harsher in the compressed NEF files.

My guess is that the noise in the sky constitutes a particularly difficult challenge for compressed NEFs because the camera&#039;s blue channel, specifically, is recording values in the highlight range.  Under this circumstance, the compression algorithm can magnify small differences (caused by noise) between neighboring blue photosites, since the effective spacing between the discrete levels that can be recorded in the highlight range is increased in compressed NEFs (i.e., the quantization error is higher).

The practical consequence of this observation is, no doubt, up for debate.  When viewed at more reasonable, print-size magnifications (25-33%), it was hard (but still possible) for me to detect the differences in the noise artifacts in the sky areas of the photos, but I suspect most viewers wouldn&#039;t be bothered by them.  However, just to be on the safe side, I always shoot uncompressed NEFs.

You don&#039;t mention what ISO setting you used in your tests, but I assume it was lower than 800.  If you&#039;re interested in reconstituting your test setup, it would be interesting to see if your test methods (much more rigorous than mine) could detect significant differences between compressed and uncompressed NEFs at higher ISO settings.

Anyway, thanks again for your great work!

Best regards, -Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeffrey -</p>
<p>First of all, thanks for a very informative post, and thanks for your diligence and objectivity in gathering and interpreting your data.  You answer a lot of questions.</p>
<p>However, there&#8217;s one circumstance that your tests don&#8217;t really cover, and in my own tests (much less meticulously done than yours, I&#8217;ll happily admit) I have found that NEF compression does create visible artifacts (though still not very offensive ones).</p>
<p>Specifically, using a D200 set to ISO 800, I took photos of a sunny Arizona scene (my back yard) with lots of blue sky included (we have no shortage of that here).  I then visually compared, at 100 % magnification, the photos made with NEF compression turned on and off, after converting them to tiffs via ACR using identical settings (note that I used different shots for this, but they were made within a minute or two of each other, so I don&#8217;t expect that to be a factor).  </p>
<p>What I found is that in the blue sky areas, the noise was pretty clearly more evident in the compressed NEFs than in the uncompressed ones.  The individual noise &#8220;grains&#8221; (viewed at 100%) were a bit harsher in the compressed NEF files.</p>
<p>My guess is that the noise in the sky constitutes a particularly difficult challenge for compressed NEFs because the camera&#8217;s blue channel, specifically, is recording values in the highlight range.  Under this circumstance, the compression algorithm can magnify small differences (caused by noise) between neighboring blue photosites, since the effective spacing between the discrete levels that can be recorded in the highlight range is increased in compressed NEFs (i.e., the quantization error is higher).</p>
<p>The practical consequence of this observation is, no doubt, up for debate.  When viewed at more reasonable, print-size magnifications (25-33%), it was hard (but still possible) for me to detect the differences in the noise artifacts in the sky areas of the photos, but I suspect most viewers wouldn&#8217;t be bothered by them.  However, just to be on the safe side, I always shoot uncompressed NEFs.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t mention what ISO setting you used in your tests, but I assume it was lower than 800.  If you&#8217;re interested in reconstituting your test setup, it would be interesting to see if your test methods (much more rigorous than mine) could detect significant differences between compressed and uncompressed NEFs at higher ISO settings.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks again for your great work!</p>
<p>Best regards, -Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Robby</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-22091</link>
		<dc:creator>Robby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 14:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-22091</guid>
		<description>Excellent analysis, thank you very much for posting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent analysis, thank you very much for posting.</p>
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		<title>By: emil</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-16811</link>
		<dc:creator>emil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-16811</guid>
		<description>The &#039;lossy&#039; version of NEF compression is a clever use of the properties of light in order to thin the levels  used in raw recording in a way that loses zero information (image content).  Each pixel counts photons, but any such counting process has statistical fluctuations (so-called Poisson or shot noise) whose magnitude is the square root of the average count.  For instance, if the average photon count of a group of pixels is 10000, there will be variations in the count from pixel to pixel of order sqrt[10000]=100.   Typical CCD Nikon sensors collect about 8 photons per raw level at ISO 100, so a fluctuation of 100 photons is about twelve raw levels.  So in highlights where one is collecting thousands of photons, there are random fluctuations of several raw levels.  The spacing of raw levels is too fine to efficiently encode the highlight data, since the last 2-3 bits of the 12-bit raw number are purely random and encoding no image data.  On the other hand, in shadows, one is collecting relatively few photons; 100 photons comes with fluctuations of order sqrt[100]=10 photons, which translates to only a little over one raw level -- no thinning of levels is possible in shadows.

This then is the idea behind &#039;lossy&#039; NEF compression -- thin the levels in highlights where they are too finely distributed relative to the inherent noisiness of light, but keep most or all of the levels in shadows where the magnitude of the fluctuations is smaller.  This is why the NEF compression table is linear at the low end, and quadratic further up.  The quadratic part is a reflection of the quadratic relationship between noise and signal of light, the higher the signal the more levels can be thinned out.  The linear part of the compression table kicks in when the signal is low enough that the noise fluctuations are less than or of order one raw level -- then no compression is possible and the output value must equal the input value.  

The &#039;lossy&#039; NEF compression is really a clever use of information theory to save space by eliminating redundant raw levels.  The noise which is unavoidably present in light effectively dithers tonal transitions so that the compression is *perceptually lossless*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;lossy&#8217; version of NEF compression is a clever use of the properties of light in order to thin the levels  used in raw recording in a way that loses zero information (image content).  Each pixel counts photons, but any such counting process has statistical fluctuations (so-called Poisson or shot noise) whose magnitude is the square root of the average count.  For instance, if the average photon count of a group of pixels is 10000, there will be variations in the count from pixel to pixel of order sqrt[10000]=100.   Typical CCD Nikon sensors collect about 8 photons per raw level at ISO 100, so a fluctuation of 100 photons is about twelve raw levels.  So in highlights where one is collecting thousands of photons, there are random fluctuations of several raw levels.  The spacing of raw levels is too fine to efficiently encode the highlight data, since the last 2-3 bits of the 12-bit raw number are purely random and encoding no image data.  On the other hand, in shadows, one is collecting relatively few photons; 100 photons comes with fluctuations of order sqrt[100]=10 photons, which translates to only a little over one raw level &#8212; no thinning of levels is possible in shadows.</p>
<p>This then is the idea behind &#8216;lossy&#8217; NEF compression &#8212; thin the levels in highlights where they are too finely distributed relative to the inherent noisiness of light, but keep most or all of the levels in shadows where the magnitude of the fluctuations is smaller.  This is why the NEF compression table is linear at the low end, and quadratic further up.  The quadratic part is a reflection of the quadratic relationship between noise and signal of light, the higher the signal the more levels can be thinned out.  The linear part of the compression table kicks in when the signal is low enough that the noise fluctuations are less than or of order one raw level &#8212; then no compression is possible and the output value must equal the input value.  </p>
<p>The &#8216;lossy&#8217; NEF compression is really a clever use of information theory to save space by eliminating redundant raw levels.  The noise which is unavoidably present in light effectively dithers tonal transitions so that the compression is *perceptually lossless*.</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-11414</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 06:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-11414</guid>
		<description>Nice analysis, thanks for taking the time to cover this topic. I just got a d200 and Ken Rockwell recommends shooting in JPG Basic mode. Which I did for a week or so but I think its going to be compressed NEF from here on out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice analysis, thanks for taking the time to cover this topic. I just got a d200 and Ken Rockwell recommends shooting in JPG Basic mode. Which I did for a week or so but I think its going to be compressed NEF from here on out.</p>
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		<title>By: Zan</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-10825</link>
		<dc:creator>Zan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-10825</guid>
		<description>I am wondering is are all the experiments really testing the compressed NEF V/S the NEF, or are they testing the software capability of discerning the difference. I don&#039;t mean to be picky, but there is an important difference in interpreting the results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am wondering is are all the experiments really testing the compressed NEF V/S the NEF, or are they testing the software capability of discerning the difference. I don&#8217;t mean to be picky, but there is an important difference in interpreting the results.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-9649</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-9649</guid>
		<description>Hi there

A Good write up &amp; from the point of the end user not from a pure mathematical perspective.

But if in doubt and you really need to stretch dynamic range in your landscapes then you really want as much data as possible in case the highlights are borderline &amp; so I won&#039;t use compression.

As for the new &quot; Loseless Compression &quot; this will need looking at.

                                                       thanks Roy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there</p>
<p>A Good write up &amp; from the point of the end user not from a pure mathematical perspective.</p>
<p>But if in doubt and you really need to stretch dynamic range in your landscapes then you really want as much data as possible in case the highlights are borderline &amp; so I won&#8217;t use compression.</p>
<p>As for the new &#8221; Loseless Compression &#8221; this will need looking at.</p>
<p>                                                       thanks Roy</p>
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		<title>By: R Pedrosa</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-7410</link>
		<dc:creator>R Pedrosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-7410</guid>
		<description>Oh, I forgot, any comment on the comment above which suggets that Canon&#039;n RAW is rawer than Nikon&#039;s?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I forgot, any comment on the comment above which suggets that Canon&#8217;n RAW is rawer than Nikon&#8217;s?</p>
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		<title>By: R Pedrosa</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-7409</link>
		<dc:creator>R Pedrosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-7409</guid>
		<description>Nice test and text. Very useful for those, like me, struggling to choose between the D200 and the D80. 

The D80 only has the compressed NEF format, and it seems, at least to me, the only real image quality difference between them. Exposure metering, another one, is really irrelevant for those coming from the pre-AE era like me, I still use my Leica M3 and, most of the time, guess the (correct) exposure, or use the wonderful Lunasix to help. 

Since DSLRs are not good investments, at least for now, it is better to go with the cheaper thing (the nice metal body of the D200 will be very soon obsolete, some say later this year).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice test and text. Very useful for those, like me, struggling to choose between the D200 and the D80. </p>
<p>The D80 only has the compressed NEF format, and it seems, at least to me, the only real image quality difference between them. Exposure metering, another one, is really irrelevant for those coming from the pre-AE era like me, I still use my Leica M3 and, most of the time, guess the (correct) exposure, or use the wonderful Lunasix to help. </p>
<p>Since DSLRs are not good investments, at least for now, it is better to go with the cheaper thing (the nice metal body of the D200 will be very soon obsolete, some say later this year).</p>
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		<title>By: Howard P</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression#comment-6809</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/nef-compression/#comment-6809</guid>
		<description>This is an excellent analysis of where the photo software industry is today in terms of NEF processing.  Things being what they are with technology we will undoubtly  see substintial changes down the road in this area.  I would bet that RAW processing in the future will give greater reason to shoot in an uncompressed format.  If you compare the digital imaging industry from its inseption verses today then tack on 10 more years you can only imagine what results will be achievable. Have you ever looked at an old photograph and wished you could make some changes?  Think about what you will be able to do with your current uncompressed NEF files in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent analysis of where the photo software industry is today in terms of NEF processing.  Things being what they are with technology we will undoubtly  see substintial changes down the road in this area.  I would bet that RAW processing in the future will give greater reason to shoot in an uncompressed format.  If you compare the digital imaging industry from its inseption verses today then tack on 10 more years you can only imagine what results will be achievable. Have you ever looked at an old photograph and wished you could make some changes?  Think about what you will be able to do with your current uncompressed NEF files in the future.</p>
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