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	<title>Comments on: Trying My Hand at Product Photography</title>
	<link>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601</link>
	<description>Not a photo blog, but sometimes I play one on TV</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.12-alpha</generator>

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		<title>by: andy</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10245</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10245</guid>
					<description>Hi Jeffrey,

On the subject of lighting, lately the prose has outshone the photo.

Enjoying your stuff as always.

&lt;span class='jfriedl'&gt;Hah, I'm not sure whether that's a compliment for my writing or a critical comment on my photos, but since I've been a (good?) writer longer than I've been trying to be a good photographer, probably the latter.  Usually, photos on my blog are merely accessories to whatever story I'm telling; it's only the rare "wow, look at this photo" post (such as my &lt;a href='http://regex.info/blog/category/pretty-photos/desktop-backgrounds/' rel="nofollow"&gt;desktop backgrounds&lt;/a&gt;) that I think are actually good. &#8212;Jeffrey&lt;/span&gt;

Cheers

&lt;span class='jfriedl'&gt;I've &lt;a href='http://regex.info/blog/2006-05-10/191' rel="nofollow"&gt;seen that salutation&lt;/a&gt; before! :-)&lt;/span&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeffrey,</p>
<p>On the subject of lighting, lately the prose has outshone the photo.</p>
<p>Enjoying your stuff as always.</p>
<p><span class='jfriedl'>Hah, I&#8217;m not sure whether that&#8217;s a compliment for my writing or a critical comment on my photos, but since I&#8217;ve been a (good?) writer longer than I&#8217;ve been trying to be a good photographer, probably the latter.  Usually, photos on my blog are merely accessories to whatever story I&#8217;m telling; it&#8217;s only the rare &#8220;wow, look at this photo&#8221; post (such as my <a href='http://regex.info/blog/category/pretty-photos/desktop-backgrounds/' rel="nofollow">desktop backgrounds</a>) that I think are actually good. &mdash;Jeffrey</span></p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p><span class='jfriedl'>I&#8217;ve <a href='http://regex.info/blog/2006-05-10/191' rel="nofollow">seen that salutation</a> before! <img src='http://regex.info/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </span>
</p>
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		<title>by: Marcina</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10221</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10221</guid>
					<description>While it’s obviously not the best solution, for shots you’ve already taken, it isn’t that hard to PhotoShop the wrinkles away from the background</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it’s obviously not the best solution, for shots you’ve already taken, it isn’t that hard to PhotoShop the wrinkles away from the background
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		<title>by: Alexander</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10220</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10220</guid>
					<description>Jeffrey, a good source for flash photography is &lt;a href="http://www.strobist.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;strobist.com&lt;/a&gt;. Its mainly a blog, but they have also many static tips and tricks pages.

Regarding your light through umbrella. I think it is not the same as a soft box.  The key thing about a soft box is, that the light travels many times forth and back inside. You have basically a box with reflecting material inside and some cloth or semi-transparent paper over it. Mostly you have another layer of cloth inside (at half height) so that the light would reflect back inside and goes forth and back. The result is, that the light comes out of your soft box in every possible angle. And so it is the opposite of direct parallel harsh light.

If you use a reflecting umbrella, you have also different light angles, but the light does not travel back and forth to get additional angles. If you use a light through umbrella, you have the softening effect of the umbrella material, but again the light goes not back and forth.

Here I have a &lt;a href="http://alexk.homeip.net/images/forenbilder/nikonpoint/glaeser/070215_D70s_CC_0953_tonwerte_800.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;wine glass&lt;/a&gt; and a &lt;a href="http://alexk.homeip.net/images/forenbilder/nikonpoint/glaeser/070215_D70s_CC_1012.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;eau de toliette&lt;/a&gt; taken with my soft box. At the glass you can see, that there are no harsh flash hightlights and absolutely no shadow behind. The background is also grey (in the glass photo), because I used only one soft box with one SB-800 and no additional flash for the background. 

My soft box is a DIY (do it yourself) one. I simply used a big shipping box, but some reflecting material inside and a sheet of semi-transparent paper in front (and one in the middle). It costs me 5 Euro or so. I simply stick my SB-800 in a hole in the back of the box. Sadly I have no pictures of it. Maybe I should blog something about it.

Regarding shutter speed at flash use. You can try the following: Go in a dark place (without enough natural light). Put all things into manual. ISO 100, some aperture (maybe f4) and 1/250s. Use your flash on camera and put it also in manual mode. Photograph some wall or so (does not matter). Adjust the flash power so that the exposure is right. Than lower the shutter speed by one stop (1/125s) - nothing should be different. Than by 2 stop - again nothing happens with your exposure. You can even try 1 second - if you have not much natural light, you exposure would be the same regardless of the shutter speed. So shutter speed does not matter for flash. You can use this fact quite well at product photography. You can work without a tripod (if you like) at 1/250s (I can even go up to 1/500s with my D70s) you will not have any camera shakes. 

Alex</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey, a good source for flash photography is <a href="http://www.strobist.com" rel="nofollow">strobist.com</a>. Its mainly a blog, but they have also many static tips and tricks pages.</p>
<p>Regarding your light through umbrella. I think it is not the same as a soft box.  The key thing about a soft box is, that the light travels many times forth and back inside. You have basically a box with reflecting material inside and some cloth or semi-transparent paper over it. Mostly you have another layer of cloth inside (at half height) so that the light would reflect back inside and goes forth and back. The result is, that the light comes out of your soft box in every possible angle. And so it is the opposite of direct parallel harsh light.</p>
<p>If you use a reflecting umbrella, you have also different light angles, but the light does not travel back and forth to get additional angles. If you use a light through umbrella, you have the softening effect of the umbrella material, but again the light goes not back and forth.</p>
<p>Here I have a <a href="http://alexk.homeip.net/images/forenbilder/nikonpoint/glaeser/070215_D70s_CC_0953_tonwerte_800.jpg" rel="nofollow">wine glass</a> and a <a href="http://alexk.homeip.net/images/forenbilder/nikonpoint/glaeser/070215_D70s_CC_1012.jpg" rel="nofollow">eau de toliette</a> taken with my soft box. At the glass you can see, that there are no harsh flash hightlights and absolutely no shadow behind. The background is also grey (in the glass photo), because I used only one soft box with one SB-800 and no additional flash for the background. </p>
<p>My soft box is a DIY (do it yourself) one. I simply used a big shipping box, but some reflecting material inside and a sheet of semi-transparent paper in front (and one in the middle). It costs me 5 Euro or so. I simply stick my SB-800 in a hole in the back of the box. Sadly I have no pictures of it. Maybe I should blog something about it.</p>
<p>Regarding shutter speed at flash use. You can try the following: Go in a dark place (without enough natural light). Put all things into manual. ISO 100, some aperture (maybe f4) and 1/250s. Use your flash on camera and put it also in manual mode. Photograph some wall or so (does not matter). Adjust the flash power so that the exposure is right. Than lower the shutter speed by one stop (1/125s) - nothing should be different. Than by 2 stop - again nothing happens with your exposure. You can even try 1 second - if you have not much natural light, you exposure would be the same regardless of the shutter speed. So shutter speed does not matter for flash. You can use this fact quite well at product photography. You can work without a tripod (if you like) at 1/250s (I can even go up to 1/500s with my D70s) you will not have any camera shakes. </p>
<p>Alex
</p>
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		<title>by: Foobert</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10210</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10210</guid>
					<description>One other thought: After figuring out the focusing issue mentioned, really work on getting the background well outside the focal range.  Use a shorter lens, and open it up to minimize the depth of field.  85mm (* 1.5) is not helping the depth equation.  The background material/lighting might become less of an issue. 

Personally, I like the neutral gray effect of your background because it directs the eye to the highlights in the product rather than making them feel washed inside an overexposed background. To some extent, it's a matter of style and production demands. But the pros probably use the later technique for simplicity; it's easier to wash the background than to deal with correct exposure of the subject AND the background (plus consistency of the background).

 ~john</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other thought: After figuring out the focusing issue mentioned, really work on getting the background well outside the focal range.  Use a shorter lens, and open it up to minimize the depth of field.  85mm (* 1.5) is not helping the depth equation.  The background material/lighting might become less of an issue. </p>
<p>Personally, I like the neutral gray effect of your background because it directs the eye to the highlights in the product rather than making them feel washed inside an overexposed background. To some extent, it&#8217;s a matter of style and production demands. But the pros probably use the later technique for simplicity; it&#8217;s easier to wash the background than to deal with correct exposure of the subject AND the background (plus consistency of the background).</p>
<p> ~john
</p>
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		<title>by: Alexander</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10188</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10188</guid>
					<description>Hi Jeffrey,

I have some little experience in photographing small products. One example is my &lt;a href="http://alexk.homeip.net/photos/photo/433940184/" rel="nofollow"&gt;watch&lt;/a&gt;.

First as you mentioned already you should get a better background. First of all I would use paper instead of cloth. Paper has no crinkles and reflects the light better. The problem is the size of your subjects.  Such really big sheets of paper are not cheep. Additionally you need to lit your background so another flash is required.

Second, put your umbrella closer to the subject. The soft shadows are a function of light source area and distance between light source and subject. Bigger area and smaller distance is softer.

Third, I would personally use a soft box rather than a umbrella. But again your problem is the subject size. You need a soft box minimum the size of your subject.

Regarding your metering. I would do all things manual. The light needed for dark cloth is no other than for light ones. You have the time to do all things manual and if once set you can leave it. Than I would use a shorter shutter speed to avoid camera shake and natural light. You can use 1/250s your sync speed. It doesn't matter for the flash exposure.

Greetings from Germany
Alex

&lt;span class='jfriedl'&gt;Thanks for your comments, Alex. That's a handsome watch, and a very nice photo of it. About the umbrella &lt;i&gt;vs.&lt;/i&gt; softbox issue, I didn't realize it until I was writing up my post, but it turns out that my umbrella can convert into a pass-through (it has a black covering that can be taken off), so I can actually use it like a softbox. Perhaps the umbrella shape lends itself to a larger fill area?  About the shutter sync speed, I really do need to learn how to use the flash. I was browsing through the manual today, and, well, I realize even more that I have no clue about flash-photography. &#8212;Jeffrey&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeffrey,</p>
<p>I have some little experience in photographing small products. One example is my <a href="http://alexk.homeip.net/photos/photo/433940184/" rel="nofollow">watch</a>.</p>
<p>First as you mentioned already you should get a better background. First of all I would use paper instead of cloth. Paper has no crinkles and reflects the light better. The problem is the size of your subjects.  Such really big sheets of paper are not cheep. Additionally you need to lit your background so another flash is required.</p>
<p>Second, put your umbrella closer to the subject. The soft shadows are a function of light source area and distance between light source and subject. Bigger area and smaller distance is softer.</p>
<p>Third, I would personally use a soft box rather than a umbrella. But again your problem is the subject size. You need a soft box minimum the size of your subject.</p>
<p>Regarding your metering. I would do all things manual. The light needed for dark cloth is no other than for light ones. You have the time to do all things manual and if once set you can leave it. Than I would use a shorter shutter speed to avoid camera shake and natural light. You can use 1/250s your sync speed. It doesn&#8217;t matter for the flash exposure.</p>
<p>Greetings from Germany<br />
Alex</p>
<p><span class='jfriedl'>Thanks for your comments, Alex. That&#8217;s a handsome watch, and a very nice photo of it. About the umbrella <i>vs.</i> softbox issue, I didn&#8217;t realize it until I was writing up my post, but it turns out that my umbrella can convert into a pass-through (it has a black covering that can be taken off), so I can actually use it like a softbox. Perhaps the umbrella shape lends itself to a larger fill area?  About the shutter sync speed, I really do need to learn how to use the flash. I was browsing through the manual today, and, well, I realize even more that I have no clue about flash-photography. &mdash;Jeffrey</span>
</p>
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		<title>by: mmk</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10141</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10141</guid>
					<description>Might just be pedantic/nit oriented me, but the creases in the background white fabric (cotton?) kept unsettling me. 

&lt;span class='jfriedl'&gt;Me too, which is why I said that the first thing I'd work on next time is the background. &#8212;Jeffrey&lt;/span&gt;

Perhaps some steam or a smoother flowing fabric is in order?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might just be pedantic/nit oriented me, but the creases in the background white fabric (cotton?) kept unsettling me. </p>
<p><span class='jfriedl'>Me too, which is why I said that the first thing I&#8217;d work on next time is the background. &mdash;Jeffrey</span></p>
<p>Perhaps some steam or a smoother flowing fabric is in order?
</p>
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		<title>by: Mikkel Rasmussen</title>
		<link>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10126</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://regex.info/blog/2007-10-11/601#comment-10126</guid>
					<description>Hi Jeffrey, 

I enjoy reading your blog. 
Nice try. It's not as easy at it looks, I know. I have tried with shooting shoes, and the results are ... not so good :-)

A hint: You write that &#62; &lt;i&gt;The SB-800 was in slave mode, while my Nikon D200’s flash was in commander mode, at 1/128th power. (It was at that low power so that its light didn’t contribute to the image.)&lt;/i&gt;

Using the D200 as CLS Commander (e3 menu) you can set the built-in flash to not contribute at all to the image. Instead of setting it to 1/128th in Manual, you can use the -- mode. (You toggle between the M/TTL/-- modes using the up/down keys). Check the manuals, as you need to activate CLS (not just "optical slave") on your SB-800 as well.

Watch out! Playing with flashes and the Nikon CLS is addictive :-)

Cheers,
Mikkel

&lt;span class='jfriedl'&gt;Doh, now that you mention it, I knew about the "--" at one point in the past. Must. Read. Manual.... &#8212;Jeffrey&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeffrey, </p>
<p>I enjoy reading your blog.<br />
Nice try. It&#8217;s not as easy at it looks, I know. I have tried with shooting shoes, and the results are &#8230; not so good <img src='http://regex.info/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>A hint: You write that &gt; <i>The SB-800 was in slave mode, while my Nikon D200’s flash was in commander mode, at 1/128th power. (It was at that low power so that its light didn’t contribute to the image.)</i></p>
<p>Using the D200 as CLS Commander (e3 menu) you can set the built-in flash to not contribute at all to the image. Instead of setting it to 1/128th in Manual, you can use the &#8212; mode. (You toggle between the M/TTL/&#8211; modes using the up/down keys). Check the manuals, as you need to activate CLS (not just &#8220;optical slave&#8221;) on your SB-800 as well.</p>
<p>Watch out! Playing with flashes and the Nikon CLS is addictive <img src='http://regex.info/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Mikkel</p>
<p><span class='jfriedl'>Doh, now that you mention it, I knew about the &#8220;&#8211;&#8221; at one point in the past. Must. Read. Manual&#8230;. &mdash;Jeffrey</span>
</p>
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