Comments on: NEF, Color Space Settings, and Embedded JPGs http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303 Not a photo blog. A personal blog with photos. Wed, 23 May 2012 20:38:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: John Bestevaar http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-42177 John Bestevaar Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:16:50 +0000 http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-42177 Hi jeffrey Thanks for NEF, Color Space Settings, and Embedded JPGs. I have bought Nikon D3100 but cant find a detailed explanation of the image files structures or tools to examine them. So it seems odd ,to say the least, that Nikon D3100 has the option to shoot RAW + Jpeg fine when the option Raw only= NEF file already has a full size embedded jpeg. Why is it there? Can the user access it? Get rid of it to reduce the file size? Add the metadata to it? My objective is to make a long lasting master image archive/database from which to make copies and other images for different uses. Regards JohnB <span class='jfriedl'>These days, the only reason to shoot raw+jpeg that I can think of is when you want the long-term quality of the raw files, but need immediate, quick access to the images (such as to pick a few from the sidelines, to send to the home office during a timeout). The smaller file size of the JPGs makes that kind of very quick access possible, when every second counts. For most people, it makes little sense to do both. There's no way to inhibit the inclusion of the embedded jpegs that I know of; they're used by the camera itself when displaying the image on the LCD, and by most image-viewer programs (e.g. Finder and Explorer). Once you've got them into Lightroom or Aperture, all they do is waste space. I don't remove them, though, because I don't want to modify my master images. —Jeffrey</span> Hi jeffrey
Thanks for NEF, Color Space Settings, and Embedded JPGs.
I have bought Nikon D3100 but cant find a detailed explanation of the image files structures or tools to examine them.
So it seems odd ,to say the least, that Nikon D3100 has the option to shoot RAW + Jpeg fine when the option Raw only= NEF file already has a full size embedded jpeg. Why is it there? Can the user access it? Get rid of it to reduce the file size? Add the metadata to it?
My objective is to make a long lasting master image archive/database from which to make copies and other images for different uses.
Regards JohnB

These days, the only reason to shoot raw+jpeg that I can think of is when you want the long-term quality of the raw files, but need immediate, quick access to the images (such as to pick a few from the sidelines, to send to the home office during a timeout). The smaller file size of the JPGs makes that kind of very quick access possible, when every second counts. For most people, it makes little sense to do both. There’s no way to inhibit the inclusion of the embedded jpegs that I know of; they’re used by the camera itself when displaying the image on the LCD, and by most image-viewer programs (e.g. Finder and Explorer). Once you’ve got them into Lightroom or Aperture, all they do is waste space. I don’t remove them, though, because I don’t want to modify my master images. —Jeffrey

]]> By: Larry Truesdale http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-17067 Larry Truesdale Thu, 01 May 2008 07:26:47 +0000 http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-17067 So, going back to the original question... Now that we know that there are differences, which color space would be better? I'm guessing sRGB. <span class='jfriedl'>It's like asking "which measuring system is best?" — and the answer is the same: "It depends." A lot of the relevant issues are discussed in my <a href='http://regex.info/blog/photo-tech/color-spaces-page1/' rel="nofollow">Introduction to Digital-Image Color Spaces</a> writeup.</span> So, going back to the original question… Now that we know that there are differences, which color space would be better? I’m guessing sRGB.

It’s like asking “which measuring system is best?” — and the answer is the same: “It depends.” A lot of the relevant issues are discussed in my Introduction to Digital-Image Color Spaces writeup.

]]> By: Enzo http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-14614 Enzo Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:38:43 +0000 http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-14614 Hy, I've read your post, it's great ! But, I'm wondering wheter all of this also applies to Nikon D70 (that I own). I'll try to be more clear. I shoot in RAW + Basic Jpg and set COlor Space to Adobe. Well. The embedded large size, basic quality, no metadata jpg file in the .NEF seems to be coded as sRGB and NOT as Adobe98, even though Color II was set. That is, no matter what Color Space is specified, the embedded jpg in .NEF will always be standard sRGB, the jpg file created togheter with the .NEF is instead coded with the requested color space. Do you also agree on this ? Is D70 embedded jpg coding policy different from D200 ? Lemme Know. PS : I'm from Rome Italy, don't bother my bad English ! Thanks, Enzo <span class='jfriedl'>I have not tested with a D70, but I'm surprised to hear that it's different. With the D200, the embedded JPGs definitely differ depending on the color space chosen. —Jeffrey</span> Hy,

I’ve read your post, it’s great !

But, I’m wondering wheter all of this also applies to Nikon D70 (that I own).

I’ll try to be more clear.

I shoot in RAW + Basic Jpg and set COlor Space to Adobe.

Well.

The embedded large size, basic quality, no metadata jpg file in the .NEF seems to be coded as sRGB and NOT as Adobe98, even though Color II was set.

That is, no matter what Color Space is specified, the embedded jpg in .NEF will always be standard sRGB, the jpg file created togheter with the .NEF is instead coded with the requested color space.

Do you also agree on this ?

Is D70 embedded jpg coding policy different from D200 ?

Lemme Know.

PS : I’m from Rome Italy, don’t bother my bad English !

Thanks,

Enzo

I have not tested with a D70, but I’m surprised to hear that it’s different. With the D200, the embedded JPGs definitely differ depending on the color space chosen. —Jeffrey

]]> By: Dennis Steinauer http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-7183 Dennis Steinauer Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:30:44 +0000 http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-7183 (I'm reading this thread because of a reference (without link) in the Adobe Lightroom 1.1 forum regarding exported jpegs having major color/exposure differences from the image displayed in LR.) <span class='jfriedl'>Yes, it should have no effect whatsoever.</span> It would seem to me that the color space selection you discuss here should *not* have any effect on the jpegs produced from a LR export (from RAW). Is that true? If not, then where might I find some guidance on why I am experiencing this problem? (I have a D200 and LR 1.1). Thanks, dds <div class='jfriedl'><p>When you re-import a JPG you've just exported (perhaps after changing the name so that it doesn't conflict with the NEF you just exported from), does it look okay once in LR again? How about when viewing with Photoshop or Elements? How about with Safari (mac or win)? </p><p> The first thing I think of is that you've got your system monitor profile somehow set wildly wrong, and so anything that uses it (LR, Photoshop) will distort things, but things that don't use it (Firefox, IE, most Windows image viewers) won't be as wrong.... </p><p>—Jeffrey</p></div> (I’m reading this thread because of a reference (without link) in the Adobe Lightroom 1.1 forum regarding exported jpegs having major color/exposure differences from the image displayed in LR.)

Yes, it should have no effect whatsoever.

It would seem to me that the color space selection you discuss here should *not* have any effect on the jpegs produced from a LR export (from RAW). Is that true? If not, then where might I find some guidance on why I am experiencing this problem? (I have a D200 and LR 1.1).

Thanks,
dds

When you re-import a JPG you’ve just exported (perhaps after changing the name so that it doesn’t conflict with the NEF you just exported from), does it look okay once in LR again? How about when viewing with Photoshop or Elements? How about with Safari (mac or win)?

The first thing I think of is that you’ve got your system monitor profile somehow set wildly wrong, and so anything that uses it (LR, Photoshop) will distort things, but things that don’t use it (Firefox, IE, most Windows image viewers) won’t be as wrong….

—Jeffrey

]]> By: Stefan http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-2904 Stefan Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:43:40 +0000 http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-2904 This is news to me. I just cannot believe how much space is wasted on my memory card! I suppose the embedded files help to speed up previewing the shot on the computer, but I really think I could do without them. Makes me think that I'll need a lot more memory cards - feels like the camera vendors cooperate with the memory card makers!? At least we're past the megapixel hype race for now. Thanks for your research Jeff! This is news to me. I just cannot believe how much space is wasted on my memory card! I suppose the embedded files help to speed up previewing the shot on the computer, but I really think I could do without them. Makes me think that I’ll need a lot more memory cards – feels like the camera vendors cooperate with the memory card makers!? At least we’re past the megapixel hype race for now. Thanks for your research Jeff!

]]> By: Brian White http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-2870 Brian White Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:03:37 +0000 http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-2870 I know my D80 includes a small image in the NEF because I see it in thumbnail views on programs that don't understand NEF files. The D80 is also compressed-NEF, which I didn't like at first but have decided that is worth the smaller file size. I usually shoot RAW+JPEG and only use the NEF file if the image is something special and needs some touch-up. (Here's my article on <a href="http://www.backgroundexposure.com/blog/index.php/2006/11/20/my-two-bits/" rel="nofollow">RAW vs JPEG</a>.) I know my D80 includes a small image in the NEF because I see it in thumbnail views on programs that don’t understand NEF files. The D80 is also compressed-NEF, which I didn’t like at first but have decided that is worth the smaller file size. I usually shoot RAW+JPEG and only use the NEF file if the image is something special and needs some touch-up. (Here’s my article on RAW vs JPEG.)

]]> By: Simon P. Chappell http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-2869 Simon P. Chappell Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:16:57 +0000 http://regex.info/blog/2006-12-08/303#comment-2869 Hey! I'm regular (Hello Jeffrey's Mom) around here now and I thought this was interesting. I wonder if this is the same on a D70? I'm still saving for a D200. And may be saving for ever as every time I get some traction with savings, I end up needing to use them for something else! I had to purchase a flash this week to help with some event photography for a friend. Grrrr. I want to shoot landscapes, what on earth do I need a flash for? I've gotta start practicing my psychotic look so that people don't ask for so many favours. :-) Hey! I’m regular (Hello Jeffrey’s Mom) around here now and I thought this was interesting.

I wonder if this is the same on a D70? I’m still saving for a D200. And may be saving for ever as every time I get some traction with savings, I end up needing to use them for something else! I had to purchase a flash this week to help with some event photography for a friend. Grrrr. I want to shoot landscapes, what on earth do I need a flash for? I’ve gotta start practicing my psychotic look so that people don’t ask for so many favours. :-)

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